We're Not Gonna Take It
It’s over. Another four-month pseudo-relationship that began online…finished.
It began well. His contact and my reply. So far, so good. A few emails were exchanged, and then we got on the phone. Three months of phone calls and emails led to his three-day visit to Colorado. We had a good time. But the past month has been spent in me asking where we’re going from here, if anywhere, and getting no satisfactory answer. A week ago I called him and put it on the line. I said if this didn’t have a future, I needed to walk. And I did.
He didn’t come after me.
I still don’t know what his issues are. He wouldn’t tell me. All I know is that he didn’t end things, even though I gave him ample opportunity. He wanted to continue talking on the phone. He wanted to keep up the email banter. He just didn’t want to define anything. He wanted to “figure things out.” I asked a friend how long this would have gone on had I not ended it. His reply? “A year, two years…maybe more.” Yuck.
Guys, I’m mad at you. And I don’t like being mad. I’m not a bitter, angry single girl. I’m a fun person. And I realize that women have their share of dysfunction, too. Someone else can blog on that at his or her leisure.
But I’ve had it. I’m fed up with guys who are supposedly looking for a relationship that leads to marriage, but they don’t know how to get the job done. I'm more and more convinced that an untold number of Christian men are in this camp. They sign up for online services, mixers, speed dating events, singles groups – you name it – but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of practically pursuing marriage, they’re clueless. Or fearful. Or unrealistic. Or a combination thereof. Many of the men with whom I’ve spoken – and there’s been a legion – still operate within the “God will provide/I’ll just have a feeling/the Lord will point her out to me” framework. In the meantime, they’re getting older, odder and more removed from reality with each mouse click, movie night or 80s party. But they’re still there…ready for the next serial online relationship or opportunity to “hang out” indefinitely with whomever is available.
And where does this leave the women? Glad you asked. We’re not blameless. We’re wasting precious time being pen pals and buddies with these guys, keeping them company in their lackluster, accountability-and-friendship-free lives and entertaining them with witty chit-chat, companionship and connection in hopes of it becoming something "more." When will it become so? When we're neighbors in the nursing home? When we're established in the New Jerusalem? Face it: we’re enabling them. We're living in a perpetual church youth group, and no one is going off to college.
One of my best friends has been talking to a guy on eHarmony for three months. You heard right – three months. And yes…they are still on eHarmony. She offered to give him her phone number, but he ignored her suggestion. Yet she likes him, she’s invested in him, so she’s allowing this to continue. She maintains her subscription to stay in touch with him! I understand completely. I’ve been there. But basically, she is paying to email this guy. Does anyone else have a problem with this? She deserves so much better! She and I have been talking recently about the courage it will take for her to call it quits. To put her foot down. It will be hard. As my sister says, “It shouldn’t have to come to this.” But it has.
Ladies, in case you still don’t get it, these "relationships" are going N-O-W-H-E-R-E, and we need to realize this sooner. Maybe it’s time to organize the Million Single Woman March. Let’s start making the signs now. We need to stop the madness! Women, unite! And guys, if you're not "in it to win it," get off the dating sites. Get out of the mixers. Stop messing around. Those of you who are directional and intentional, keep it up...and help your friends, ok? Let's make this a group project.
As far as my story is concerned, there’s just an overwhelming sadness. The fact that this guy liked me and thought I was a great girl means nothing. He’s a good guy, but realistically, he may never get married, and if he does, he will probably settle on several fronts. I'm sad that he has high hopes, but is stuck and doesn’t know how to get out (cue U2’s “Stuck in a Moment” here). He wants a relationship that’s easy, convenient, familiar, and requires no cost or concession on his part. He wants it to just “work out,” and he has past patterns to prove it. I wish him the best. Truly. But more than that, I hope – and pray – that God will grab him and show him what’s what. I hope that an older, wiser Christian man will come into his life and give him the facts. I hope he’ll realize that moving toward marriage is more than just “seeing what happens.” I hope that someday he’ll have the opportunity to put this into practice.
I hope and pray this for all single Christian men. Until then, enough is enough. They won’t have access to me. They won’t get my emotional and intellectual capital. They won’t use up my time and energy. They won’t “figure things out” on my dime.
Consider it my part in making future marriages happen…one ultimatum at a time.
31 Comments:
My husband and I discussed this, and I asked him what was different about his generation and this current one.
He thinks it is mostly an increase in the "me" mentality. More guys who are so involved in establishing their careers and social environs, and don't want to give any of it up. Guys his age did not take as long to get their career established (or decide on one) so they could move on to thinking about marriage. In our day those that did not move on to marriage were mostly weird.
My husband said that they did not have as much vested interest in other things. He also said that his generation had mostly good marriages to look up to. Now even "Christian" marriages don't always turn out. Probably because of the same "me" mentality. They give up on them instead of trying to work things out.
I also think that back then the road was "paved" differently. In our time churches did not have all those progressive single groups ( 20's, 30's, gen-x, etc.) with social outlets. Once you were out of college the next and only step was a married couples group. Maybe churches now are enabling the problem of "single infinity" because they make it too fun.
WOW!!I felt as though I was in a Twilight Zone because it was like reading about my current situation. Thank you for having the where-with-all and the guts to speak out for all of us who are stuck and haven't had the courage to say something and move on or just plain walk away.
You mentioned that the women have their dysfunction also. I can tell you that is absolutely true. Probably one of the main reasons us men are not pursuing you is that a total lack of grace and just a a spirit of meaness in the women we are supposed to be pursuing.(For some reaon this is is particularly so for women in reformed and Luthern churches). Women- we could literally lay down our lives for you and your cold hearts would not warm 1 degree. One of the mantras you repeat is that you must "gaurd your hearts". Some of you have gaurded them so much they have turned to stone.
I'll have more to say later.
I quite agree a woman's responsible too if she wastes her time with a man who shows no inclination to move toward marriage.
I'd be interested in some practical guidelines here. The guy "didn't want to define anything." How would it have looked for him to define things? Did you need him to say, "I'm interested in determining whether we're compatible for marriage, so to that end, let's keep calling and emailing and visiting when we can?" Or else: "Will you be my girlfriend?" Was he treating you as if you were just another friend? What sort of thing did you want from him that he didn't give?
I know the situation you describe well.
The problem is, in my weaker moments of loneliness, I return to these guys - there are two with whom I maintain an 'ongoing flirtatious friendship'. I try to cut them off, I've removed my heart from the situation, but when it's a choice between another lonely night at home or calling someone who will make me laugh... I go for the phone call.
You could argue that I should be out meeting someone new - I've tried that several times - but it's such hard work!
I admire you for taking decisive action.
Are these the early rumblings of a revolution?
Debbie Maken
They should be, Debbie. Help us start it!!!
One of the things you women can do to help us guys out who are pursuing is to be more honest in what you looking for. Instead of saying you're looking for a man who loves God, is kind, generous, loves kids,... say what you're really looking for is a man who loves God, is kind,loves kids and makes over $40,000, has a nice house and drives a nice car and looks something like Dr. McDreamy and if it comes down to it as long as you fit the last three descriptions the first 3 are negotiable.
I once took a woman to lunch after church one Sunday and asked her directly to reconsider her previous rejection of a relationship with me. She told me I was kind, good with kids, caring,sweet, and had an obvious love for God but she was still not interested. Used the old "got to gaurd our hearts" line. I asked her why this was not enough and she really did not have an answer to that. By the way ladies when scripture talks about gaurding our hearts it means we are to gaurd them from sin-not from each other.
I resent the comment about women wanting a man who makes money. I happen to know the woman who posted this blog. She owns her own home and is quite successful in her career. The guy who broke her heart makes a very modest living. And it didn't matter one bit to her. Personally, my fiance makes just enough to get by, and that's great by me.
What I don't understand are these guys who are online dating services--isn't the point to find a spouse? Why don't they pursue with intent? Why do they just let contact with women fade instead of being upfront and closing them out? Why do they not initiate conversations about the direction of their communication? What are the women on eharmony doing to encourage guys to treat them like this?
You and your friend are then exceptions and I appreciate that.Those comments were not directly at her but the question was asked as to why men are not pursuing you women more with the intention of seeking marriage.
In short so far I have given two answers in two separate responses.
One is that a lot of you are just graceless and mean and the other is that you are just not honest about what you want. In both instances you cover it up in spiritual language. And when I say you I mean women in general. Some of the strongest marriages I know have been where the man who by this world's standard was not comsidered sucessful but the woman believed in him and loved him and ultimately put her trust in God(instead of a man's job or bank account). I'll give examples of what i consider mean and graceless later. That is if you really want to know or if you(again women in general) just want to bash men and then go turn on the TV and fantasize about Dr. McDreamy-your version of a "click of a mouse"
Rachel Gray --
Basically, after four months of talking on the phone an average of four nights a week, plus a face-to-face, multiple-day visit, I expected him to say one of the following:
1) I'm just not interested...let's move on.
or
2) I'd like to intentionally pursue a dating/courting relationship with you...let's get started.
I didn't get either of those responses. He was really vague, despite me repeatedly asking for clarification. Yet he kept calling. I know he's ended online relationships in the past, so I didn't understand why he couldn't do it this time. Nor could I understand why he couldn't move ahead with me if he wanted to.
I wasn't asking for marriage...just to get something, anything, off the ground.
I felt like I was taking the lead in everything, and that's not a place I want to be. So I gave up. I walked.
With all due respect, I believe you're being a bit harsh and judgmental on the fellow.
It's possible he may not know how to proceed. My experience over the years demonstrates that the American evangelical church doesn't do a very good job of teaching singles relationship skills. (For that matter, it doesn't do a very good job of ministering to singles, period.)
It's also possible his expectations and yours were quite different. In that case, it's probably for the best that the relationship didn't work out.
In any case, criticizing single men in such a harsh manner is not a constructive solution if you indeed want to promote marriage among single Christians. In fact, such criticism will only drive a bigger wedge between the genders.
I totally agree with you that the American evangelical church has failed our generation in teaching us how to pursue marriage relationship with intention and without fear.
What is sad about this situation is that this grown man (who claimed he was online specifically to find a wife) was unable to articulate his feelings about the relationship, much less lead them toward something. After his visit when he offered no direction in their relationship, she prayed and prayed and sought godly counsel for a month. Finally, she told him how she felt about him and put it out on the table--here was his big chance to step up, take initiative, and tell her what he thought--that he didn't want to pursue her or that he did--or SOMETHING. But he said neither. Basically, he said, "Bummer" and hung up the phone.
I didn't think she was harsh or judgmental. I think her response was because she has been hurt yet again by what has become the norm--Christian men who are unable to enter into relationships with intention. He claims he wants to be married, but he doesn't know how to go about doing it. And she suffers the consequences of that inability. As do all single women in this situation. And there are plenty, believe me.
Personally, I wonder how these guys will wake up and realize that they need to step up already and break this cycle and reclaim their masculinity after the neglect they've suffered by the church. Perhaps criticism would help! The women can't nag/push/shove them into seeking counsel and wisdom in this area. They just have to sit on the sidelines and pray.
And as for him probably not being the best guy for her, that's probably true. But it doesn't mean that her heart is any less broken because of that fact or that his back is any less spineless.
Why is it that anytime there is any expression of frustration by a woman, no matter how delicately or gracefully put, or deserved by male sex, there is always someone on the blogosphere wanting women to consider how "mean" they might be? How criticism, even legitimate criticism, must always engender divisiveness. How women must only be after men who earn well, and if they don't say they are open to paupers, how villaneous and self-interested they must be? Any self-serving characterizations to undermine the truth of the original message, I guess.
Here I go on the record. Women wanting or desiring men who earn well is not a reflection of their lack of trust in God or their pecuniary interest in money through marriage. It has to do with simple economics of-- will he be able to provide for a family. This sentiment does not deserve an apology. It is amazing to me that men in this culture voluntarily choose jobs and professions that are dead-ends, they make educational decisions all along the way that have consequences, and yet they think that their choices should be consequence free from the women that may find them interesting or mate worthy. Lack of ambition and lack of development of talents in men is routinely covered up in spirituality, and I do not think any woman should ever have to plead disinterest in future earnings of a man in order to prove they are "nice," or "not mean." When people interview for certain jobs, guess what-- there have to be certain kinds of qualifications in place-- no hospital would hire a doctor who never attended medical school. Why is it that the qualification of earning potenial is always villified? It is one of the elements of consideration for any woman serious about marriage, and no apologies need be had about it. Again, this is a place where parity plays a great deal, and I think that those who have made choices that afford them more monetary rewards should be able to ask for the same in the other partner, as well as asking for the same amount of intellectual development, or parity in looks, etc.
I do want you to start that revolution, and I have some ideas. Please email me through my blog-- dmaken@gmail.com, and give me your email, so that we can communicate.
Debbie Maken
One of the first casualties in a revolution is the truth. Debbie you did a good job of distorting what I said. Is the commandment about bearing false witness in your bible? If you take a look also you will see warnings against materialism in there also.
You combined the two things I said in to one thus distorting the points I was trying to make.
The initial post invited someone to blog about how the women were contributing to this crisis. I simply took her up on her offer.
I'll be ready to accept your apology whenever you are"man" enough to render it.
We're sure Debbie can defend herself, but Anonymous, let's avoid calling people out personally in a mean-spirited way. We're all for healthy discussion and disagreement, but we don't want this to become classless. We let your comment (above)through...this time. Continue the discussion, but make it about ideas, not individuals. Thanks!
Above, Debbie Maken wrote:
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Why is it that anytime there is any expression of frustration by a woman, no matter how delicately or gracefully put, or deserved by male sex, there is always someone on the blogosphere wanting women to consider how "mean" they might be? How criticism, even legitimate criticism, must always engender divisiveness. How women must only be after men who earn well, and if they don't say they are open to paupers, how villaneous and self-interested they must be? Any self-serving characterizations to undermine the truth of the original message, I guess.
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Over at
http://www.spiraluniverse.org/index.php?fcall=sffeature, Debbie had this to say:
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I am sure that some of my dissenters might genuinely disagree with my positions, but sincerity and biblical correctness have never had to be bedfellows. We can’t have two contradictory viewpoints like this, and both sides be correct. (my emphasis)
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The quote immediately above is an apt summation of Maken's insistent belief that the guys (for the most part) who disagree with her only do so out of malign motives. In any case, they certainly aren’t sincere about it.
To paraphrase her comment on this blog:
‘Why is it that if a man is content being single, he must be smeared as ‘enjoying extended adolescence’? Why is it that substantive disagreement with Maken’s position, no matter how gracefully or tactfully stated, is chalked up to impure, hidden motives? Why is it that a single man is maligned as lacking ‘biblical masculinity’ simply because he chooses not to pursue marriage? Why must legitimate criticism of Maken’s arguments be recast as immature men fleeing responsibility? Why is it that a content bachelor must be viewed as villainous and self-interested? Any self-serving characterizations to avoid dealing with substantive disagreement, I guess.'
For the record, I agree with a lot of the present comments here concerning men who lead women on and do not ‘define the relationship’. I think such men are cruel and/or cowardly. I personally don’t believe I have any business dating unless I am pursuing marriage. And since I am not pursuing marriage, I don’t date (nor do I have any ‘female buddies’ that I spend a lot of time with). But this is an entirely different question from whether or not I have a responsibility to pursue marriage.
interesting. so, the question is, Do you have a biblical responsibility to pursue marriage? and if not, why don't you think so?
You know another casualty in a revolution is honest communication or in other words people stop listening to each other. Debbie could have asked " hey -what do you mean my -your statement that there seems to be a graceless and spirit of meannesss and can you give examples so I can pass that along to the women. She chose deviseeness and distortion.
To be quiet honest the original post is not as innocent as everyone claims it to be. I'm sure she is a fun, sucessful, person and in general not a bitter person. But come on a lot of bitterness came through.
Just because we are not pursuing you does not be we are looking at pornography as the "click of a mouse" comment suggests.Yes that is a huge problem for guys and it definitely effects their ability to relate and pursue women. But quiet frankly you women have the same problem only in the pornography you watch/read the clothes stay on. How many illict acts occured in the television shows you watched this week(and by you I mean women in general. Do you not think that does not effect the way you relate to men. Why do you admire men like Donald Trump who is on wife # 4 or #5 or the mythical Dr. McDreamy-how many women not his wife has he slept with on his tv show.
I'm sure you meant well by your comment about us being "friendless".
And yes many of us are...but I can't help to think it was sort of a dig or a twisting on the knive in the back of men because she were just hurt by one. Does she really pray for these "friendless" males?
Maybe instead of revolution we should be talking about restoration.
Anonymous said...
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interesting. so, the question is, Do you have a biblical responsibility to pursue marriage? and if not, why don't you think so?
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That's been the question all along. As to why I don't think I have such a responsibility, it's simple: I disagree with Maken et. al. that God commands us to do so. And in my opinion, Maken's book completely fails to make that case.
In short, I believe that it is an issue of liberty rather than one of obligation.
I disagree with the observation that there was bitterness in the post. It's not bitterness, but rather it is hurt and righteous anger. I "hung out" with a guy for 6 months. This included lots of phone calls from him (which were mostly while I was at work because that was "most convenient" for him) emails, outings to lunch, dinner, movies, etc., cooking together at his house...you get the picture. However, he would never outright define things. I would try to open that door, but was scared to push it too much because I didn't want to scare him off and thought I just needed to give it more time. After six months, he did sit down with me to say we need to be just friends. He said he thought I viewed our friendship to be more than he did. The funniest thing to me was he said that this had happened to him before with his other girl friends. (INSERT RED FLAG HERE!) Being "just friends" was not what I wanted to hear, but as I explained to him all I ever wanted to know was how he truly felt and I totally appreciated him clarifying things for me. Well, over the next four years we maintained a casual friendship. After four years he decides we need to spend time together again. Now remember he decided this and he approached me. The phone calls started, the emails, and everything else. Things were going well much better than before and I was a little scared, but wanted to give it a go. After four months it seemed we were right back into our rut or better yet he was back in his rut. So I decided to talk to him about it. He informs me that once again I had misunderstood our relationship and that he had only intended we be friends. So, that day at that moment I decided that not since preschool had I needed an imaginary friend so I let go and moved on.
Wombatty--
Interesting that you feel being single (or not) is a liberty. Can you support that biblically?
I have not read Maken's book. However, I understand that marriage is the relationship that God designed to display His covenant love for His church to the world. It's a sacred relationship, and I have actually never encountered a person who didn't desire it at some point.
I am not single, but I loved loved loved being single. I was the last person I ever thought would get married, but I am terribly at peace spiritually with that decision.
I would just like to say that I don't understand all the "Dr. McDreamy" comments. I don't know a single person who has a crush on him except my grandma.
Anon wrote:
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Interesting that you feel being single (or not) is a liberty. Can you support that biblically?
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First, I think those who claim that marriage is a commandment have the burden of proof. There are crystal clear commandments against: fornication, adultery, lying, etc., etc. Likewise, there are clear commandments to pray, focus on the positive, practice gratitude, patience, etc. There are no such clear commandments in regard to marriage. Maken tried to make such a case in her book but, as I said, I think she failed.
Second, I think 1 Cor. 7: 37-38 supports this:
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But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.
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If it is legitimate for a man (or woman) to reamain single by calling off an existing engagement because he so wills, it is certainly legitimate to do so by deciding not to pursue marriage in the first place.
There are alot more reasons to doubt Maken's thesis; I would suggest stopping over at scripturallysingle.blogspot.com where there is a chapter by chapter critique of Maken's book. Even if you don't agree with everything there (I don't), there is no harm in considering the other side of the issue.
Anon wrote:
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I have not read Maken's book. However, I understand that marriage is the relationship that God designed to display His covenant love for His church to the world. It's a sacred relationship, and I have actually never encountered a person who didn't desire it at some point.
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I agree with everything you write here, but it has no bearing on whether or not marriage is a commandment.
Anon wrote:
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I am not single, but I loved loved loved being single. I was the last person I ever thought would get married, but I am terribly at peace spiritually with that decision.
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I am still single and I am 'terribly at peace spiritually' with my decision at this point in my life.
Enough.
(Ladies, please feel free to skip this post. )
I once read a story about a judge back in the 1800’s who, when a woman was brought before him on the charge of prostitution, would levy a fine against every man in the courtroom.
So guys, in that same spirit, KNOCK IT OFF! Stop blaming the culture, the church, the singles groups and you for sure had better stop blaming the women. If your God is so small that He can’t provide you with a godly mate for reasons above – you’re pretty close to committing blasphemy in my book.
You want to get married? Do this: get under some godly, married man and open your life up to him and allow him (and through him, his wife), access to EVERY area of your life. If after a year of this you’re still single, then you can take it up with God. Look, it’s simple: men are designed to lead and women are designed to respond; I’m not saying you’ll have the pick of the litter, but godly women WILL be drawn to you as you become more like Christ. Which, in case you didn't get the memo, just so happens to be the main purpose of your time here on earth anyway. So “act like men; be strong!” You may be pleasantly surprised what happens.
Single guy in SW Colorado
Hello, SWColorado.
Our God is not too small. You see, our God is so big that he can say "no" to our request for a spouse any time he wants. He is under no obligation to give us a spouse no matter what we do.
Of course, it appears that your God, on the other hand, must give you a spouse if you just go about it the right way. It appears that you can twist the hand of God to make him do whatever you want him to do just by simply "Getting Serious about Getting Married." I agree that if a guy wants a girl he should pursue her, but God always reserves the right to say no at any time. That is why he is God, and you are not.
The tone of your comments speak for themselves. If this is the way you answer criticism, then I think it says a whole lot about the substance of the mandatory marriage movement. If the best you can offer is intimidation, then you should really be thinking about how strong the arguments for your position really are. If they were better, you would not have to resort to this kind of language.
PuritanCalvinist
SWColorado said...
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I once read a story about a judge back in the 1800’s who, when a woman was brought before him on the charge of prostitution, would levy a fine against every man in the courtroom.
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That is one of the most inane things I have ever heard (I wonder if the judge fined himself).
There is no doubt that certain men have a share of the blame for prostitution, but so does the prostitute - to deny that is to deny personal responsiblity.
SWColorado said...
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So guys, in that same spirit, KNOCK IT OFF! Stop blaming the culture, the church, the singles groups and you for sure had better stop blaming the women.
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I take responsibility for being single - I have chosen to be so.
That said, to place the entire blame for all of this on men is myopic and naive.
To puritancalvinst; I sincerely apologize for any theological toes I may have stepped on. I’m sure we would both agree on the deity of Christ, His finished work on the cross and the inerrancy of scripture- making us far more alike then in our differences would have us.
To wambatty: you’re right; bad call on the judge/fining the men analogy. What else can I say? It seemed like a good idea at the time….In fact, I really regret the overall tone of my post and for running so roughshod over the very real concerns and issues that were being addresses here by both sexes.
I also recognize the very likely possibility that the majority of the readers here have surpassed me in both Christ-likeness and theological insight. So in light of that, please take this as a gentle reminder: the Kingdom of God is best served by us as individuals focusing on becoming more like Christ and in building each other up in the faith.
SWColorado
Here is my question:
What's different about this generation of men that has caused so many of them to be content with singleness?
What's different about this generation of men that has caused so many of them to be content with singleness?
Sorry if this gets a little random but it's who I am.
To answer your question simply ,or not so simply, is that this generation is ok with the easy way out. We have become so dependent on everything from the internet and cell phones to where little to no energy can be exerted to have somewhat of a quasi relationship. The rest of it has to do with what I see as a big fear of rejection, worrying "what will everyone think?" or "how will this affect my image?" The single guys, and I am not excluding myself, have become scared of their own shadows to a point of not wanting to step out of their comfort zones. Everyone can point a finger and blame society or the media, but it is our responsibilty as men to step up and initiate.....state where you are at and your intentions. If you get rejected then so be it, move on. God has someone out there for you, and it is possible that he could put that person just right there in front of you. The thing is that you have got to work at it, it's not just going to be a walk in the park and everything just magically fall into place. Which is another thing, if everyone is waiting for that whole magical scenario.....WAKE UP!!!! This isn't a real life Disney fairy tale.
So here is what I am saying:
Guy:
Suck it up, be a man.
State your intentions and don't play games. If you aren't ready to take that step in a relationship then don't go back on your word.
Gals:
It's true that you should protect your hearts, but not at the cost of never opening it up. You will miss all of life if you don't let yourself into the game.
If you are confused, more than likely so is he. Communication is key to everything and works both ways. If he isn't willing to talk about it, then he isn't worth your time.
Also Ladies if guy has show interest (I.E. Called you, emailed, texted, or asked you out) then just remember that you have some responsiblity there. You can either have the talk or go with it. This situation goes both ways, guys do it but so do the ladies.
Everyone can sit here and read this, and talk about what is wrong but until someone does something. Which means that we as Men of God, will have to start making a difference to change this. Enough of talk, Guys lets Walk the Walk.
I want to start with a disclaimer: To my knowledge, I don’t know anyone on this blog. Also, I don’t know who the original writer or the person whom she was talking about.
I’m a single Christian guy in his late 20’s. I read this blog and was incredibly frustrated. These are the sort of things “the church” has to deal with on a constant basis now.
First, understand that I am not blaming women, society, the church, etc on the current state of how relationships work. I am also not taking the blame off of men. I think both sides are to blame because we both have unrealistic expectations when it comes to relationships. Also because we’ve forgotten our roles within the body of Christ.
We live in a culture that tells us I want it NOW and it’s all about ME! We also live in a culture that tells men that they are not able leaders, that they are not allowed to pursue the way God tells them to, and tie men’s hands behind there back when they actually do what God tells them to. Our culture tries to define what relationships are for us. This same culture has tried to redefine the roles we are to have. Unfortunately these lies have infiltrated the church. Bottom line, these are all lies and can’t be excuses.
Now, to why I was frustrated…
You knew this guy for four months… Correct? So he came out and visited for three days. So you talked on the phone some. Did you know him? Did you get to see him relate to friends? Did you watch him in a church setting? How did he respond? Is he involved in a church? What was his family life like? What did you “know” about him? What were your expectations? There are tons more questions that can be asked that we just don’t have time for. What I saw was that you wanted to be pursued your way and it was either that or the high way. Thanks for giving him a chance to respond!
Granted this is how I am but I will not ask any woman out on a date without knowing them for at least six months. On top of that, I know that I am to treat every woman as a sister in Christ no matter if I’m interested, dating or just friends.
We all have issues! We all have baggage. I know I’ve got my problems but with God’s grace I move forward every day and I work towards being more like Christ. In no way am I perfect – I’m far from it. But you stated that we (as men) don’t know how to get the job done. I’m sorry but you can’t lump every guy into this category. Does this happen? Yes! Is it right? No. I’m very involved in a Men’s ministry at the church that I attend and our whole mission is to be the men of God that He’s called us to be, to be the leaders that He’s called us to be, and to be intentional in every area of our lives according to His will. I admit that I don’t know and haven’t talked to “a legion” of men but I meet with a number of men on a consistent basis. None of them would ever say that they operate within the “God will provide/ I’ll just have a feeling/ the Lord will point her out to me” framework. Many of these men have pursued women in a godly way only to be told “You’re a great guy but…(which is completely another subject in and of itself)” These men have come to understand that it’s not about practically pursuing marriage, it’s about pursuing Christ and understanding how Christ pursued the church and then constantly relying on God to fulfill their needs. These men are active! Are they actively pursuing every woman that comes into their path? No! They want to show every sister in Christ that real men of God do exist when you allow them to and that they can protect, lead, build, and be friends with. When the time comes for them to pursue, they do with integrity, godly character, and they try to go about it with wisdom. Unfortunately there is no book “The Bibles Christian Dating principles” that outlines Christian dating. Many have tried to write it but often fall short because it creates a certain set of expectations that says dating has to be this way or that way and it has to lead to X,Y, or Z. How is marriage mandated in scripture? To be fruitful and multiply. What does Paul say? He told the church that it is better to be single… but if you burn with passion it’s better to be married. Why do we forget this?
You stated that you are wasting precious time being pen pals and buddies… and you ask “When will it become so?” But your answer is one of disdain which leads us men to believe that it’s either your way or the highway. Sorry, but it isn’t suppose to work like that. There are many great godly men out there who get overlooked because of the way society and the church views them. Yes, you are correct in stating that there are men out there who want a relationship that is easy, convenient, familiar, and requires no cost but there are just as many women out there who believe similar lies. Relationships take work and communication. We’d all do better if we understood our roles not according to the world but according to God and His word.
By the way - Starting a Revolution and giving a true man of God an ultimatum is only going to hurt how that man views your character. All you are doing is telling godly men every where that it has to be done one way and one way only and if you aren’t willing to play the game with our rules then don’t come play at all. It’s not a game. It’s life! When we understand God more and how He created us to be, we are able to understand this and how we as men and women are to relate. If you want things to change, then look for the men who are already doing it, encourage them and lift them up so that others may see it. Stop trying to change a man! And men, step up be the men that God’s called you to be. If you don’t know what that is, then find someone who is living it daily and ask for their help.
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